You cannot randomly (or otherwise) place 5-6 people in a group and immediately expect them all to uphold such high standards, without knowing these people and giving them the time to prove themselves trustworthy. Its inappropriate and wrong for a pastor serving the church to live an opulent lifestyle. I was a member in the mid 2000s and lead a community group. After surviving the mental mind games; requirements which forced your focus onto WM (over Gods children as a whole); moved from a small/community group dialogue of what can we do to serve Gods children and one another to a focus on everyones sins/short comings; and focus on surviving their destructive behaviors under theRead more . On the April 8, 2019 episode of WordsfromWags, a website that features videos from Watermark Church senior pastor Todd Wagner addressing various issues, the topic of the day was Is Watermark Church a Cult? I admit I also used to automatically discredit stories Like this one when I heard them. Many professed believers have doubts about . . For as long as the church has been in existence, this is the EXACT formula for getting connected in the Christian community but Watermark Church says its just not enoughwhy? Pastor Todd Wagner - it seems all is not well at Watermark Church. Once you have joined or have been placed in a community group (CG), the control begins. Probably not. This is a quality and important post. Groucho Marx. Thank you for your reply! Watermark Church is purportedly a nondenominational church in Dallas. Heres everything you need to know about your first visit, from parking and Kids Ministry to accessibility for guests with special needs and what to wear. They were told that since money was something very personal to them, what they earned & howRead more , Part I and Part II both great and spot on. He could have sold the house when it was gifted to him, bought a home more in line with a humble servant leader, and donated the additional proceeds to the church. Just because you have not experienced or witnessed the things that happened to the person who told their story that I featured in this post, does not mean those things did not happen. At Fellowship they really didnt want anyone who had a prior history of really bad sins; they wanted stable couples with children since they usually have more $$$. The indication in the sermon I took as this type behavior was common in the marriages of core members, and this system for family members to have a safe network should the man become overwhelming was being recommended.Read more , Thank you for these articles. What is Watermark? In the beginning you are blissfully unaware that just under the surface of all the whirlwind of activity and belonging, there is an undercurrent of control about to take hold of you. Can anyone tell me what is Todd Wagners past? Not in your writing, but in the people who felt that they were being personally attacked and never took the time to speak to a leader or to actually consider the teachings that are found in the Bible. . Statement of Belief | Watermark Community Church As a church, we are whole-heartedly committed to pursuing and preserving truth as described in the Scriptures. Can I be in a community group if Im not a Member of Watermark? There are 2 Todd Wagners in Dallas. Our post-modern tendency is to use culture as a reference point, not the Bible. Lots of wood pallet walls, trendy decor, and of course a coffee shop. woodbridge high school stabbing; 1000 blythe blvd parking lot b Ive spoken to these people and I believe them. Yes WM hides abusers and minimizes victims. Ive been at Watermark for 7 years and experienced people in my community group leaving the church; there are NO such requirements or stipulations that prevent you from leaving the group or the church entirely. I had experience with Watermarks head pastor in the 1990s. It challenged it and ultimately made it stronger. As I detailed in *Susans story, if you are unable to find a group of people to form a CG, you must go through a multi-week process to be placed in a group. The initial corporate fraud is in fact the membership agreement itself. Todd Wagner, co-founder of Watermark Community Church in Dallas, Texas, announced his resignation on Sunday after a season of chaos and conflict. Definitely good intuition to be concerned for your daughter. Were big on community. My former GF was one of them and she was run off, I was run off for supporting her. Yes, membership is biblical, but Ive also never felt uncomfortable with anything mentioned here, nor do I share all my secrets with the church. When I was 17, I started attending church regularly with my boyfriend (now husband) in high school, and we would go to Sunday School. I would be ok disclosing financial information to my community group. : fill, sign, print and send online instantly. Its sad to see how the church moved in the direction of being more cult like. You tuned right into what most, including myself, ignored because we were too distracted by the perceived success and engaging teaching styles. These are filled out by each community group member, then copies made and provided to all of the other members. I pray your able to navigate how to get her to be independent and not fall dependent on WM for her validation. Once your account is created, you'll be logged-in to this account. Because hes fearful. Thats not to say that churches shouldnt be inviting and friendly they should if the goal is to guide you into a fellowship of believers that have a common goal of worshipping the Lord in Spirit and in truth, take part in the breaking of bread (communion) and offering support and love in a community setting. Helps connect the dots so to say. (Cult red flag): When I began attending WM I volunteered regularly with homeless, reached out to help others, believed in people etc. *Michael knew he was done with Watermark Church when he was invited to another blindside meeting by a Watermark Church staff member. We didnt share our financial information until almost a year into our meeting. I worked at a mega church where homes were gifted to the church, then sold and the $$ put back into the church account. As I learned how WM was initially started, out of manipulative behaviors and lies, I knew I had to leave. Just a thought here Nueva inadvertently lays out some data which is interesting. The FBI swoops in to try and use him to take down the law firm and the mobsters all at once. I have never met so many people using the term spiritual abuse asRead more , Concern, Who are you to judge!? I know his church was started in Lake Highlands at the HS and then he gained enough followers and was able to purchase a house in HP. In community we are known, loved, cared for, pursued, encouraged, and challenged to be more like Jesus. Through our membership covenant, members commit to pursue what we call (for ease of remembering) the 4Bs: 1. When is a Church Member 'Fair Game' . He springs off of that definition into how true followers of Jesus might be considered a Jesus-cult and how is that a bad thing? In this photo provided by the North Korean government, North Korean leader Kim Jong Un, front center on stage, attends a meeting of the ruling Workers' Party at its headquarters in Pyongyang . If youd like a suggestion for a charity outside of our church well gladly help you. They dont even take a collection in church! that would be a better fit. The atmosphere is very inviting and aesthetically appealing. Ive also never shared my income with anyone at the church, but my community knows a little. We also get your email address to automatically create an account for you in our website. Just to name a few. Ashford, AL 36312 334.899.3624. It is Not referenced as a legal tool which may be weaponized against anyone they desire to control or experiment on. I have NEVER been asked to, let alone forced, to disclose financial information. There are people who are genuinely afraid to withdraw their membership for fear of being put under church discipline, pressure from the community group to conform, and outright harassment. that will remain home to Drayer Phyical Therapy. Psychological warfare Is a good name for it. sabbath school superintendent opening remarks P.O. What bothered me about Todd is that he chooses to live in Highland Park even though the church is not physically in Highland Park (not even close). He began to consider that he was in a cult. All of these things happened to *Michael. If you are going to judge Watermark, its leaders and programs, then I would encourage you to do so in the context of Scripture, especially the New Testament, including the gospels and the epistles that talk about church order, and yes, even discipline. The wolf is destructive to the souls of the wayward through its non Christ like behaviors. Crazy cycle, right? *Michael was in a Community Group of men that he discovered were not particularly disciplined, dependable or trustworthy, yet he was expected to do life with them and be completely authentic. After you have completed Membership Class Part I, you will be assigned a host who will listen to your story of grace. You stated that Moneywise is a separate program within Watermark Church, which is true, but the documentation that I provided is from the Community Core Values curriculum, and the Moneywise program is embedded into the core values, which members of the CG are required to follow. former board member of . Cant even begin to address this without feeling a sense of disappointment. Prestonwood Baptist also made the list (top 20) and its nowhere near a cult. I wish I could lay out my whole story because it was indeed my soul that felt abandoned and discarded. Prestonwood Baptist also made the list (top 20) and its nowhere near a cult. He did end the video by defining what HE thought the three marks of a cult were: Im going to address #3, because I did my own Google search of the Dallas County Central Appraisal District and discovered that Todd Wagner lives in a $1.5 million dollar home in a very prestigious area of Dallas. Rohrer alleges he only resigned from the San Francisco-based post because the high-ranking members of the church created a "hostile work environment" from his first day on the job in May 2021. No one is perfect including Todd.. he is not God. A pastor or elder does not automatically have spiritual authority due to his position in a church. In *Michaels case, he disclosed to his community group a business opportunity that he was considering. Also resigned is David Leventhal, an elder and teaching pastor at Watermark, who said he had lost trust in Wagner's leadership. Like Scientology, once they know these things, they can use them against you. My challenge to Susan is to give citations for the quotes she gives. https://www.watermark.org/about/governance. For more information in regard to serving outside of Watermark, please email externalfocus@watermark.org. 1 Thessalonians 5:21 I appreciate it! Their way is by controlling- knowing everything about you through unrelenting, constant confession & sharing, knowing how much money you make & how you spend your money, full input regarding your life decisions, AND the freedom to love you by admonishing anyone in your community group at will. Im happy to answer any questions, but you need to know this is absolutely wrong information. I covered this in my previous post, When Is a Church Member Fair Game, referencing a case of church discipline that Watermark carried out publicly against one of its members. Interns are expected to work 15 hours a week during the academic year and then up to 40 hours a week . @WorriedMom, I would love to connect with you. You may or may not know the 5-6 people you are sitting in the room with (doesnt matter). how to make soursop tree bear fruits; Tom Cruises character, Mitch McDeere is a Harvard Law school graduate that is courted & hired by a prestigious Memphis law firm that represents a powerful mob family in Chicago (unbeknownst to him). Watermark was founded in November 7, 1999 with an outward-focused ministry that sought to minister to "the unchurched, dechurched, dead-churched and unmoved." [1] Watermark averages about 9,000 weekly attendants. If you arent a covenant member at Watermark Church, you cant join a community group, and that is where all the getting involved starts. The womans story you shared sounded like her personal interpretation of events that has no factual evidence to back it up.. We areRead more . The problem is that those things that they do not do well are not just bad but are cancerous. Those who love control and achievement thrive very well there = works. On any device & OS. At least that was how I understood what he said. Every argument you put forth seems to be based on your subjective opinion based on your speculation, assumption, and judgement.. Watermark encourages people to confess their sins to one another and to admonish faithfully but thats because thats what the Bible tells us to do as believers.. Also, please note, you are free to leave Watermark Church at any time. Members received the news of Leventhal's resignation a month after he tendered it, adding to the suspicion that a months long process of dealing with Wagner's 'pride problem' appears to be more than what has been disclosed to the church. Just because you havent personally experienced or have personal knowledge of these things happening does NOT mean they didnt happen to someone else. Watermark Church pushes for everyone to become members of a church, because in their opinion, it is assumed in the Bible. My fellow watch blogger Julie Anne at Spiritual Sounding Board shared this video on the BITE model for cults. I think I have a pdf copy of a ten year old one. Before I get into the first story, I want to lay some groundwork to help my readers understand how the structure of community groups at Watermark Church works. Having been a Watermark (now CityBridge) member since 2016 have never EVER heard these messages thatSusan speaks of. SERVICIO DOMINICAL EN ESPAOL 11:15 AM. Spiritual authority influences others toward Gods purposes. We were raised Baptist and raised our daughter that way initially. Im providing links and screenshots of Watermark Church literature that explicitly asks its members to do exactly that. Our staff represents a vibrant community of people who have been transformed by Christ to love like Christ. The new doe-eyed lawyer was in too deep, and life as he knew it would never be the same. *Michael had tried repeatedly to engage his community group members in mission activities, but they were not receptive and didnt bother to participate. If you dont want to be a member at Watermark you dont have to be.Read more , There is a difference between positional authority and spiritual authority. You CANNOT, however, attempt to withdraw membership to avoid church discipline. The BITE model was developed by Steven Hassan, who was a former member of the Moon cult in the 1970s. I wonder if the pride and arrogance just can not handle situations where the leaders are not properly identifying what is causing the symptom (sin) of the actual core struggle an individual is having. He meets with an FBI agent in a park in Washington DC, who proceeds to tell him,They bring in the new rookie. But not everyone wants that, and for those people there are lots of other churches that offer community groups, small groups, life groups, etc. Anna may be able to recommend some professional reading materials, which would help you to educate your daughter in a way at her age she will be able to see clearly. I automatically defended the leaders and staff, and also automatically discredited the victims with pre determined notions the victim was not telling the whole story. This a perfect example of why you cannot place implicit trust in a group of people just because you are in a community group at a church. Volunteer (Current Employee) - Ashford, AL - September 18, 2019 During his later days at Watermark Church and continuing after he left, *Michaels experiences included several behaviors and actions, which in his opinion, mimicked the legal definitions of stalking, malicious representation, slander, psychologically & financially abusive practices and manipulation. They are full-blown corporate performance reviews, except about twice as long as any Ive filled out. Interviews are to begin on March 13th. It took a tremendous amount of courage for this person to come forward and tell their story, for fear of reactions like yours. Susan felt it was ironic that I had made a comparison between Scientology and Watermark Church, because she said those same comparisons helped her realize that she was not in a healthy church. Each community group member has the right to call you out on something, anytime, whether you like it or not. So you either choose to remain by completing the 4b questionnaire or you are no longer a member, [] a greatexample of unsafe community groups which verge on cults. *Michael had a steady job, was stable in most areas of his life, and didnt struggle with some of the same issues that the other men in his group did. He is a gifted teacher and speaker and could have made so much more money over the years with the opportunities he was given, but he didnt take them. I verified it. Watermark's Church Contract Todd Wagner is the pastor of Watermark Community Church. I can see and understand why ex members might be scared. In this step, you'll complete the following: To review or update your progress through this step, view your membership status. The guy has an ad that comes on YouTube where he goes through how his org is run. At Watermark, we believe life transformation happens best in the context of relationships. If you dont fill out the form you can leave easy if your just quiet. Thank you for providing educational dialogue which is very needed and an under served area for those exploring Christianity. There was one guy that didnt want to shareRead more . I haveRead more , Two anecdotes: Through a friend I learned of a professional counselor making note of how many Watermark clients she had who were women who felt emotionally abused and demeaned by their husbands. Any admonishment should be delivered with patience, grace, and compassion. You made friends with whoever you wanted to and you shared what you felt like sharing. They fear excessive contact & pressure from the church that they are on a sinful path and/or that Watermark Church will pursue formal church discipline against them. He has people who fund his life so no donations are used for that purpose and so he can fully focus on running the mission.. do you have knowledges that Todd is spending money frivolously? I asked Susan if she wouldnt mind answering a few questions for this post, which she was happy to do. Ive heard many stories about their type of conversion therapy. It sounds like people from the church may have gotten some things wrong, but I know so many people that haveRead more , Pdiddy The taxes ALONE on the house Todd lives in are over $30K a year, which is probably the salary of some WM staff members. This is a tough one. The entity becomes so big, that its influence reaches far and wide, into local industry, mutual relationships, etc. Once you see it, you cant unsee it. However, if you have any experience with these covenants or have heard stories of people who have dealt with a church where they signed one of these and there was a point of contention or disagreement, you know that these are LEGALLY binding agreements and can be used against you (re: current The Village Church lawsuit& the Karen Hinkley story.). He finally quit when he decided to switch jobs and was reprimanded for not getting the groups permission. Either a family moves, a person feels they outgrow the church and/or its programs, maybe hurt feelings or drama preceded a sudden exit there are all kinds of reasons that people leave churches, but almost always it is exercised by someones free will under no duress or fear of repercussions whatsoever. Share your testimony verbally with someone from our team. Tim Yates Pastor Tim, his wife, Dawn, moved to Bellefonte after almost 20 years as missionaries in Africa and Australia. Remember all of that sharing in Community Group living authentically, telling everyone about your finances, your struggles, getting their permission to make any life decision? what is the oldest baseball bat company? You can read more about it on his website, Freedom of Mind. A very sad reality for many. Why wont I tell *Michaels complete story? The Watermark Church staff member attempted to use *Michael to help further isolate and exclude this wayward church member by exaggerating details of a situation in order to cause him to think negatively of this person, and thus no longer associate with him. THEN they are required to provide a copy of every worksheet to each member of theircommunity group! I was called repeatedly. Gotcha. Can I be a Member of Watermark if I dont live in the area? In my next post Ill share another story from another former-Watermark member. No longer fulfill the requirements of membership. Dismiss the abuse of others how did you come to that conclusion? on The Aftermath: Stories from Former Watermark Church Members, Youth Volunteer at The Village Church Confesses to Sexual Abuse of Minors. I will never forget the screams of desperation and loss I felt as a young Christian woman. Yet it turns out they are getting people toRead more , Hi to all, Ive been a member of Watermark for over three years, went through Re:Generation and now co-lead a community group. Confession, of course! In November 2021, the church announced that Blake Holmes would be the new lead pastor/elder, along with adding John Elmore & Timothy Ateek as teaching pastors. Having said that,Read more . Move away 2.Join another (approved) church 3. You can also listen to our sermon on Spotify, Apple Podcasts and YouTube. This team makes sure we are good stewards of those gifts by carefully receiving, counting, and documenting each gift given in house on Sunday mornings. If you dont want to share about your finances you dont have to. Its a clear sign of an abusive environment. The reason: He's gay and in a relationship. When you login first time using a Social Login button, we collect your account public profile information shared by Social Login provider, based on your privacy settings. Hes not the pastor of Watermark. If by community you mean meeting with like-minded individuals to foster friendships & develop relationships then great. Please allow up to 3 business days for a response. Unsure why he is getting criticized for living in a house that is experiencing uber appreciation b/c of the school district it resides in. Ill also go into more detail about how Watermark Church does resemble a cult, and how some of their teachings are harmful and potentially abusive. During his address to the Watermark Community Church congregation in September, Wagner told them [], Did anyone see this Sundays Sermon? If youve never been to Watermark Churchs sprawling Dallas Campus, its a sight to see. 7540 Lyndon B Johnson Fwy Its ridiculous to give issue for a house he lives in, that he himself didnt purchase. People leave churches all the time. No puedo decir que no estoy en desacuerdo contigo. At the end of each section in Session #4 Giving, community groupmembers are required to fill out financial worksheets in regards to their finances: income, debt & giving. I received some emails from former Watermark Church members who wanted to tell their stories, but were hesitant to share too much online, for fear of repercussions, or as I refer to it, fair game. I take at face value Susan has hurt and I feel compassion for her. She first discusses what I see as the wolf. The Bible says in Hebrews 4:13, Nothing in all creation is hidden from Gods sight. Watermarke Church has found a home after purchasing a former car dealership in Bellefonte. leamington news accident. This was the same concept as we moved on to adult Sunday school.
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